SHOULD ISRAEL BAN FUR TRADE?
The Knesset may scrap a bill which had the backing of Sir Paul McCartney, to forbid the manufacture, import and export of all kinds of furs. The bill would have exempted the use of fur for making the traditional shtreimels, or fur hats, worn by the strictly Orthodox. Would this have been a good move by Israel? Or is up to the individuals to decide to buy or not to buy?
Should Israel ban fur trade?
Yes, because... Israel could do with good PR
Whisper it, Israel needs to show the world it can lead the way on humanitarian issues, that it's a good and compassionate, democratic country that we know it is. What a missed oppertunity to do some good. The fur trade is vile and inhumane, and crucially unnecessary. And now just because some Canadian had a quiet word with some Knesset members animals lose out, yet again. It's disgusting. The MK's need more backbone. We Jews are enjoined to be kind to animals. Judaism prides itself on its compassion towards them. Continuing to tolerate the fur trade belies that, degrades our fellow sensate creatures, and demeans us all. Remember, the previous owner of that fur garment - the rightful owner - was killed wearing it. If the pelt originates in China, chances are that it was obtained from animals who died in agony while being boiled alive. Repeat - boiled alive. Whether animals are farmed for their fur or are entrapped (with all the suffering that entrapment entails) is immaterial. The fur trade is barbaric and outmoded. Tolerating it is unconscionable. Israel should ban it now.
The fur trade is indeed unbelievably vile, and I hate to be a bit cynical, but given that Israel hasn't shown much signs of being a good compassionate, democratic country
Do the Israelis have any tradition of respecting anyone's rights except their own? Why would we expect them to start now? You may as well ask the Russians or the Chinese the same thing!
In Israel, we should not expect too much, I fear! For that matter, not many countries have the hallmark of these characteristics in their cultures! Of course we should not give up, but we should expect progress to be slow in most places.
Vote on this point: Israel could do with good PR
See history of changes to this point
Should Israel ban fur trade?
Yes, because... The fur trade is cruel, and we Jews are enjoined to be kind to animals.
Remember, the previous owner of the fur garment was killed wearing it. That is shameful and horrific. There are enough descriptions and videos existing to show the horrors of trapping animals for their pelts. The entrapment process is agonising, and even when animals are farmed for their fur the trade is still cruel. In China animals are boiled alive - repeat, boiled alive - for their fur; apparently boiling facilitates the removal of the pelt, and is beneficial (though hardly to the animals used so barbarically) to the pelt. How can any of us, Jew or non-Jew, tolerate this wickedness against our fellow sensate creatures? It is unconscionable. The use of fur for any garment, anywhere in the world, is anachronistic. Judaism prides itself on its compassion for animals. Continuing the fur trade belies that, and demeans us all.
Should Israel ban fur trade?
Yes, because... What's the point, anyway?
The original need for fur hats was in frigid Russia and Poland, where some protection was needed to keep out the cold. Now, in the hot climate of Israel, what's the point of continuing this practice at the cost of animals? I am not a vegitarian, I don't think there's a problem of using animals for human's benefit, but here there is simply no need.
However, I don't think this is a fair place to debate such a thing, because I don't think many ultra-orthodox Jews are visiting this site...
Should Israel ban fur trade?
No, because... Last time i looked it was a free country
Common sense at last! This could be a slippery slope to banning all furs, what about fur which we need for religious practice? They say its not bannedn now but that won't be enough for the animal rights lobby/ terrorists who won't stop until we ban kosher slaughtering too.
What a waste of MK's time to debate such a bill. Glad it's over with now.
See history of changes to this point
Vote on this debate: Should Israel ban fur trade?
Point 1. Israel could do with good PR
Whisper it, Israel needs to show the world it can lead the way on humanitarian issues, that it's a good and compassionate, democratic country that we know it is.
What a missed oppertunity to do some good. The fur trade is vile and inhumane, and crucially unnecessary. And now just because some Canadian had a quiet word with some Knesset members animals lose out, yet again.
It's disgusting. The MK's need more backbone.
The fur trade is indeed unbelievably vile, and I hate to be a bit cynical, but given that Israel hasn't shown much signs of being a good compassionate, democratic country (must I state the obvious, forcible takeover of Palestinian terroritory, denial of the rights of Palestinians since well before the creation of the state of Israel in 1948, continued denial of Palestinian human rights in West Bank and Gaza, aggressive colonisation of East Jerusalem and West Bank sites condemned by the international community since 1967) - what chance have animals got. Come on now, really! Do the Israelis have any tradition of respecting anyone's rights except their own? Why would we expect them to start now? You may as well ask the Russians or the Chinese the same thing! Animal Rights tend to advance in only two types of countries, whether or not they are formally democratic: firstly, countries that think that non-violence to all beings is an important and even crucial value and mark of civilisation. Secondly, countries that have a recent history of resolving their differences with their neighbours peacefully, thereby giving the idea of rights for people embedded in their culture to be extended to animals. In Israel, we should not expect too much, I fear! For that matter, not many countries have the hallmark of these characteristics in their cultures! Of course we should not give up, but we should expect progress to be slow in most places.
First of all, this reply has nothing whatsoever to do with the debate. It's like having a debate on whether education should be free, and a response of someone griping about the fact that people don't have enough kids. What does your political opinion about Israel have to do with the selling of fur in said state?
Second of all, what you said is a lie. Israel has been in a constant state of self-defense since well before 1948. In that year, Israel "took over" Palestinian territory, just like the Palestinians "took over" Israeli territory in a war that was started by the Palestinians themselves.
Israel gives the Palestinians the same rights as it gives the Jews. The only times where this is not true is when Israel is afraid for the lives of it's citizens, whom it has a duty to protect. As for your "aggresive colonization of the West Bank and Gaza"- that land has belonged to the Jews for centuries, and it has a full right to live and build there. And if you want to look at it from a legal point of view- Israel captured the land in a war that was STARTED by the Palestinians themselves, so they can hardly complain.
In conclusion, please stick to the subject at hand, and also to the facts.
Point 2. The fur trade is cruel, and we Jews are enjoined to be kind to animals.
Remember, the previous owner of the fur garment was killed wearing it. That is shameful and horrific. There are enough descriptions and videos existing to show the horrors of trapping animals for their pelts. The entrapment process is agonising, and even when animals are farmed for their fur the trade is still cruel. In China animals are boiled alive - repeat, boiled alive - for their fur; apparently boiling facilitates the removal of the pelt, and is beneficial (though hardly to the animals used so barbarically) to the pelt. How can any of us, Jew or non-Jew, tolerate this wickedness against our fellow sensate creatures? It is unconscionable. The use of fur for any garment, anywhere in the world, is anachronistic. Judaism prides itself on its compassion for animals. Continuing the fur trade belies that, and demeans us all.
Point 3. What's the point, anyway?
The original need for fur hats was in frigid Russia and Poland, where some protection was needed to keep out the cold. Now, in the hot climate of Israel, what's the point of continuing this practice at the cost of animals? I am not a vegitarian, I don't think there's a problem of using animals for human's benefit, but here there is simply no need.
However, I don't think this is a fair place to debate such a thing, because I don't think many ultra-orthodox Jews are visiting this site...
Point 1. Last time i looked it was a free country
Common sense at last! This could be a slippery slope to banning all furs, what about fur which we need for religious practice? They say its not bannedn now but that won't be enough for the animal rights lobby/ terrorists who won't stop until we ban kosher slaughtering too.
What a waste of MK's time to debate such a bill. Glad it's over with now.
Having a debate with someone like this is like asking a donkey to read. Israel a free country? Ask the 1.5 million Palestinians whether they would agree? And this person calls animals rights campaigners "terrorists" while the soldiers of his country happily shoot down women and children. I rest my case as made in my earlier 'No' comment made on the other column - you can't reason with people like this. Reason, or reasonableness, is not in their vocabulary.
See previous reply proving that you should probably be doing something else other than debating.
No matter what the Israeli's may or may not be doing to the palestinians is totally outside the context of this debate. In this case even you would probably agree that israel is a free country for jews and as the debate is about jews using fur then how free the palestinians may or may not be does not really matter. I rather doubt that many palestinians wear fur.